Tuesday, June 06, 2006

Where do you draw the line....with a Prophet?

I must admit that I have been extremely surprised at many of the responses to the letter from the First Presidency asking us to contact our Senators to support marriage between a man and a woman. I understand that this is an emotionally charged and extremely complicated issue. It is not the issue at hand that has surprised me. I, myself am still a little at a loss of what to think. I know that God loves all his children, regardless of what their hair color, religion or gender preference is.

What surprises me is the negative attitude many have taken against the First Presidency for issuing this statement. I've read blogs/comments that state the First Presidency has no idea what it is talking about, or they have no understanding of the actual effect of this ammendment or the real agenda of the politicians. One article written by a BYU Professor basically called the First Presidency a bunch of liars ( for which I am sure his tenure at BYU will not be much longer).

I know for myself, that sometimes Church leaders mix their personal beliefs with Church Doctorine and we've discussed this in past posts ( like Genius or Apostle....) but I do not think that the First Presidency has made this a personal issue. I believe that they are speaking out because the Lord instructed them to. The Prophet and Apostles proclaimed truth in the Proclamation on the Family YEARS ago. It has a specific part stating that marriage between a man and a woman is ordained of God. No one blinked when they read that part when the proclamation first came out. There was a resounding, "DUH." Who would have thought years later that we would be debating about gay marriage? Not me, anyway.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I find it interesting that people are so willing to dismiss the First Presidency in anything that has to do with politics. When President Hinckley asked the members of the church to re-read the Book of Mormon, no one ( at least that I was aware of ) said, "President Hinckley doesn't know what he's talking about. What a stupid idea." or "President Hinckley doesn't understand the real issue at hand here..." etc. Millions of members of the Church opened their books and had great experiences.

I know the Prophets and Apostles are not perfect. They are men. But they are men called of God. Every Conference we raise our hands and sustain them as our leaders. But I wonder if you can really say that you fully support them and then pick and choose what counsel you will actually follow. " I support the Prophet, but only as long as he sticks to topics D, G, and A."

6 Comments:

At 6/06/2006 12:28:00 PM,

The leaders of the church are just people like us, they have differences of opinion and different political beliefs. Sometimes you even hear a cool story about the twelve debating a certain issue that the church has not taken a firm stand on (stories about which leaders do and don't drink coca cola come to mind), but I think that when they act in their official capacity they should be granted the highest degree of deference. There is a difference between two of the twelve discussing what they believe is the best way to handle the same sex marriage issue and an official proclamation to the church. When it comes out officially it is hard for me to imagine that it is coming just from the minds of the men who occupy the office and I think that we should treat it as being from God.

Also, while some might argue that the statement is an implicit endorsement of a specific act, unless I wasn't listening that closely (which is entirely possible) it didn't say to tell our representatives to pass any specific bill, just to let them know that we value traditional marriage. this doesn't necessarily mean that we are being told to support a bill that has been purposed, it could include an idea like "the stuff that is being discussed is a little too much, but we do need find a fair way to protect traditional marriage"

 
At 6/06/2006 01:02:00 PM,

I agree. Why do people in this church continue to dispute revelation from God? I guess many don't have a firm foundation. Like Chris said, it's revelation, not a personal opinion.

 
At 6/06/2006 06:00:00 PM,

Chris makes a good point. The First Presidency did not ask us to tell our respresentatives to vote for the marriage ammendment. They merely urged members of the Church to "express their opinons on this matter". In fact, our bishop even had to re-read the letter this past Sunday because when it was originally distributed to the ward, it had been accompanied by a message from our relief society president telling the sisters that we needed to write our senators about our support for the ammendment. Apparently, the first presidency had specifically instructed that the letter be delivered without editorial comment, so Bishop felt the need to present as shut.

One more thought: let's not be too hard on the people who are a struggling with this. I think it's good that people are voicing their doubts and concerns. That's one of the things I love about the Gospel. We're not asked for blind obedience. In fact we are encouraged to explore the issues, ideas and commandments given us and recieve our own confirmation of them. Because I worked closely with a very wonderful gay man (who had a very wonderful partner and who recently adopted a son) this used to be a difficult issue for me. I remember spending a lot time thinking about this last year and never being able to conceptually grasp why they should be deprieved the right of marriage (I mean, they didn't have the same upbringing I did, they shouldn't be held to the same standard etc.) It was as I was writing about this one day--trying to work out the issues on paper--that I recieved a clear spiritual witness; that God's purpose was wise one and that he was aware of the challenges faced by gay individuals and loved them and would care for them. This experience strengthened my testimony incredibly. And it came about because I choose to really grapple with an issue, because I expressed my concerns to my Heavenly Father. I agree that we need to be respectful while doing so (calling the First Presidency "stupid" is ridiculous), but I think it's a good exercise to go through and something we all can learn from.

 
At 6/06/2006 10:29:00 PM,

If something is the will of God, why would prophet, seers or revelators "suggest" instead of boldly declare/require/command? It seems that when something is a "suggestion" (and I am not saying anything about whether or not this particular letter was a suggestion), then it is just that - a suggestion. Otherwise it would have been framed otherwise. 

-Testimony Grappler

 
At 6/07/2006 07:55:00 AM,

Siyadow-

That is a huge assumption. It would be silly to "take anything coming from the mouths of the Prophets as a the word of God." For example, President Monson once told my brother that no one should drink buttermilk or eat black olives. He said they were too disgusting. Commandment? Suggestion? Idle conversation? Speculation?


Even President Hinckley has publicly questioned words "coming from the mouth" of Brigham Young - namely the Adam God doctrine.

Sometimes a prophet is a prophet, and sometimes a prophet is just a man saying stuff. Again, I think that the unanymity between the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve on this issue, plus the officialness of it, puts it squarely in the camp of "official word of God" material... but not always.

 
At 6/07/2006 10:26:00 AM,

I dont think it's always very clear-cut, especially on your "official" pronouncement line.

I dunno, how clear cut is it that Brigham Young said Adam was the only God we have anything to do with in General Conference? Sounds like he was acting in a fairly official capacity, yet the Church has denounced his statement made in what appears to be an official capacity.

Or how about racist comments in general conference by certain apostles in the 1960s (and earlier?)

Or maybe the First Presidency statement officially denouncing evolution... and then the later retraction of that same denouncement...?

 

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